Tuesday, July 13th, 2010

Ad Swaps and Relationship to Your List

I  recently wrote this post in a forum.  It was in answer to a long
thread answering a question about using Ad Swaps to build a list
quickly,  and with what frequency one should do swaps.

I thought you would be interested in my post.  I invite your response
also.  What do YOU think?


The gentle, sincere and loving care and feeding of a tender young list is nothing to be casual about.  It is a serious business.  It will be the life-blood of your business, and your income.

In writing on this subject,  I have found that following the Golden Rule is usually the best principle.  If you want a REAL experts advice…  look at yourself!  When was the last time YOU hit that unsubscribe link in the zillions of emails you get a day?

And more importantly WHY?  I can tell you what I do.  The first time you send me
3 sales letters a day,  I get up tight,  the next time, you get dumped.    :-)

We’ve been told that the money is NOT in the list –  the money is in your relationship with your list.  What kind of relationship are you setting up by constantly bombarding them with sales pitches?

And  YES,  a swap letter IS a sales pitch… for a product or report with the intention
of selling a person on joining someones list, or yours.  If  you can see through that rouse don’t you think everyone else can?

Something,  I haven’t seen in this thread,  is what Kern in his List Control gets to the core about and that is monetizing your list.  Creating a relationship for higher and higher conversion,  and believe me it is NOT done by bombarding your list with other peoples sales pitches.

My opinion: swaps can help you build your list a little faster,  but like anything in our lives, it should be done in moderation.  Personally,  I limit my swaps to a certain number a month, (or a certain number of days between)  and then ONLY if the swapper is giving away something I feel is of real value to my list.  And believe me,  I’m Ms Fussy about it too.

For the most part my list tells me how I’m doing.  I get thank you letters from my list when I send them something worth while.  I get comments on my blog  and people write me and ask for my help,  and even offer theirs.  My favorite letter from a list member,  (the whole thing)

“hi daylynnestarr
i no study english
i am iran
i love you”

I  think it says it all about relationship with your list. 

~ ~ Daylynne ~ ~

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10 Responses

July 14, 2010

Certainly food for thought. I think it very much depends on who you get on your list and what stage they are at. There was a time when I welcomed as much free stuff as I could get from ad swaps But now it does get a bore and I do unsubscribe from a list if I get bombarded ever day with a freebie from an ad swap.

Yet, the fact remains that some of the top list builders and successful email marketers (they make their living from it) do ad swaps all the time. I think you have to test the waters a bit. How many do you limit yours to or aren’t you telling?


July 14, 2010

Hi Daylynne,

Nice post!

I am exactly like you…once people get onto ‘the pain in the rear’ meter, they get dumped. I am pleased that you do it too because I thought I was being a grumpy old man!

Frank Kern is a legend! He really takes IM to a new level. I wish I had the money available to buy his stuff….watch this space though…

Talk soon


July 14, 2010

Thanks Sandy for your comments…

You may have opened up a big can of worms here. :-) I think that swaps are
pretty good things, really, but not the extremes that some are taking it to.

The “Big Guys” usually bombard their lists unmercifully! And yes, they get away
with it… or DO they? Their lists are all numbers. Frankly, they don’t care a wit
about you, or who you are, only your stats.

I’m telling some stories out of school here… but here’s an example: With a list of
over half a million (500,000) you are the 800 lb Gorilla, you can do and sit any where you
want to (lol). So they send a sales pitch to their list; at the barest minimum return of
1% (or even less) they will get a 5000 open and click through rate. Usually, sales will be
around 2 to 3 % of that number, which means 100 to 150 sales! If the product is a low
priced one, say $17, that means $1700 to $2550 return for the mailing.

So if they mail out a sales pitch every day for the month, their “take” will be around $51,000
to $76,500 for the month! Well, the downside is that about 5 to 15% of their list will unsubscribe.
Awww poor baby! Do they care? NO!

Why don’t they care? Because they have enough stuff out there bringing in daily opt-ins to their
list to total far more than the unsubscribes. Do they care about YOU? Well, as an individual, NO,
but as a number or stat, sort-of. Are they Ad-swapping? Sure, you see it everyday. But they
swap with other marketers with similar sized lists. Does that make it all OK?

Can you expect this kind of return on your list? Well, pretty much the same. Say your little list
is under 1,000. If you lost 5 to 15% every mailing, you’d lose about 50 to 150 people per mail-out.
But how would you replace them? Usually small list people are fairly new, and don’t have lots of
things up where they can count on certain numbers of opt-ins.

How do I know all this? I search and research. I have been doing this for some time for my up
coming book on the Care and Feeding of your list.

Glad you asked about what I do. I only swap with people who give my list some good content or a
really valuable freebie. I limit my swaps to around 6 a month, (but often do less) mainly because
I’m far too busy to do many more, but truly because, I think that’s about all my list cares about.

We are in a very new marketing trend, and I like where its going. It’s still a numbers game, but
other marketers have got wise to the ‘tricks and plays’ of the old Guru’s, and they are sick of it.
A new breed is emerging now, and I think a good breed, of marketing people who really CARE
about their list, who CARE about their customers, and who offer them personal service along with
truly good products. Write me anytime at my email address freely given on the front page of
my blog, and I’ll answer you. Yeah, ME, not a Virtual Assistant or a robot or a canned
thank-you letter. That’s just an idea of where we are going.

What do I think you should do about swaps? I think you should look carefully at what the swap
partner is offering. If it will fit into your plan for your list, and the product or freebie is worth
while, go ahead with the swap. But I disagree with just swapping with anyone who will offer
you the chance to swap. Look at the letter they propose you to send, and very definitely
look at the opt-in page they go to, and actually click it and see where else it takes you.
If you think its junk and trash, why would you want to send that to your list? Just decline the
swap and answer the next letter begging for a swap.

Wow, I’ll get off my soap-box now, and guess what, I won’t even charge you for this
book. :-)
Thanks for the comment and questions, I’m sure a lot of my other readers will have a
lot to say about this too…

July 14, 2010

Hi Joe..
Thanks for the comment… this is going to be a fun thread I think…
You know, there is nothing written that once you get on someones list that you
can’t just say “no more” and unsubscribe. But the same holds true for people on
YOUR list.

Treat your list like your best friend, because they will be. Make a plan for your list and
stick to it. If ad swaps being offered fit into your plan, do it, other wise turn them down.

Check my response to Sandy, I’m sure you will find it of interest.
Frank Kern’s new product, List Control, is a killer product. He advocates using a plan
for your list, and NEVER bombarding them with sales pitches. And if anyone should know
its got to be Frank.
Be sure to watch my blog for the next coming post on setting up your Sales Funnels…
you’ll love it.

July 16, 2010

Hi Daylynne. I totally agree with you on this point and I would have to say what you send to your list in an adswap is extremely important too. The material has to relate to the niche you have developed your list around. Your copy must not say the usually, “My friend Yodeedo has this great book for you”.. That is old and my subscribers have told me they are just tired of that old line.
So we must tell our subscribers why they need the adswap info and what’s in it for them!!
Also be prepared to lose sometimes as many subscribers as you gain.
This can happen too.
I limit my adswaps to 1 a month just to be special about it. And with different partners.
If you swap with the same partners frequently you will have duplicate subscribers.
I agree with the comment on treating your list like a “friend”. I would add to that to speak to your list like you are talking one on one with them and not preaching to a stadium.. Remember there is a person on the other end of the email you are sending out!

Thanks for all your great advice! I always enjoy your posts.
Adrienne Lee

July 17, 2010

HI Adrienne Lee,
Thanks for that informative comment, I’m sure many of my readers will find it very
useful and helpful. I honestly believe this is a subject that has been mainly glossed over
by most of the higher marketers for whatever reason. I think it may be because not many
people really understand the complexities of real list development and management.

I am hoping to fill that gap with my coming course on the subject.

Thanks for adding to the knowledge base… :-)


August 15, 2010

Hi Daylynne,

I can relate to this post, I am a newbie and have started coaching classed with Mark Terrell and we have learned the most important thing is building a relationship, it is nice to see and hear i am learning the right way, I am not all that excited about adswapping I hear more cons than pros lately I will eventually try it. I am glad I stopped by good info. I would love for you to stop by and check my blog out if you have time and let me know what you think. Thank you be back soon


August 30, 2010

HI Karen,
Please forgive me for being so tardy in responding to your very nice comment.
Yes, you are right in one thing, you DO need to be careful who you swap with, it seems
nowadays one needs to be careful about a lot of such things.
Thanks for your invitation to visit your blog. I am planning on doing that for you. The reason
for not answering you sooner, and the rest of my tardiness is because I’m working on a major
launch. They take full time+ but they are very exciting to be in on. I will post about it in the
near future.

April 8, 2012
sam noel

i really like your blog the idea of ad-swaps is something i need to get into

April 8, 2012

Thanks for your comment Sam..
Yes, Ad Swaps are the life blood of email marketing. You not
only increase your list each time, but you also extend your area
of promotion. I hope my writing and the mini book helps you
get started. That’s a good topic to chat about and ask in our
Super Heroes Giveaway chat room.. See you there… :-)
Daylynne.. AKA Wonder Woman (lol)